Curse

Zui · Aug 20, 2006, 07:04 PM // 19:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOneMephisto

Lol, yep [TA] is probably TA exclusive. I mean, we won like 3 lost 4 or something like that. The problem is that my guildies a) have no GvG experience and b) get extremely discouraged extremely fast if we lose. So I've basically given up trying to get them to Gvg.

Lies!

We have two people with GvG experience in the guild, and sometimes even one guest! lol

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camille Constantini

EDIT:For the record EaT tends to run the NR, I've rarely seen them run balanced, only degen or NR.

1) I'm pretty [Eat] doesn't run Tranquility anymore, they just run Nature's Renewal. The metagame is very enchantment light, and it's not like you can't just D-Shot Guardian, which is the only common enchantment Tranquility really helps with.

2) What's wrong with builds that use Nature's Renewal? It's 100% beatable, unless you're running a poor build. Also, you can't expect people to not metagame... Before NR/Tranq was introduced, SBRI was dominating TA, along with other hex-heavy and enchantment heavy teams. NR/Tranq was the natural counter to those teams, because they were relied heavily on Hexes and/or Enchantments.

3) What's wrong with Degen/Heavy-Pressure? It's a build, it's effective, and it's certainly beatable.

Lobotomizing Shocks · Aug 20, 2006, 07:24 PM // 19:24

Although it is true that some builds do have an advantage over others, it can be beaten like Zui says. NR/Tranq can be fought with a modified melee or a rit+monk+2 melee type build and I personally think if the melee guys and the rit have suitable skills (Mantra of Conc/Resolve, Wild Blow, Dist Blow, (PT?)) you can have some good matches against NR + Trap Spammers.

However, you can also make up a counter with a typical balanced build by modifying the melee to a more anti-stance guy or even a psychic distraction mesmer if you would like.

And Hex teams can also use a psychic dist mesmer as well. So yah, TA is a lot build based, but a little pre-planning and skill manuever can overcome builds that are designed to be a counter to yours. No more raging/complaining now!

Wasteland Squidget · Aug 20, 2006, 09:10 PM // 21:10

Watch the E-drama, guys.

I haven't played with [TA] since my guild doesn't do arenas much, but [Eat] is a good guild in my experience. Played with some of their players (mostly DivineShadows) and played against them in GvG. Always good matches, and never seen anything unsportsmanlike at all.

kvndoom · Aug 20, 2006, 09:36 PM // 21:36

Wow, 4 threads in one, but back to the original topic (which got lost somewhere in these 4 pages), congrats Unko!

Sacred o_O · Aug 21, 2006, 11:41 AM // 11:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zui

2) What's wrong with builds that use Nature's Renewal? It's 100% beatable, unless you're running a poor build. Also, you can't expect people to not metagame... Before NR/Tranq was introduced, SBRI was dominating TA, along with other hex-heavy and enchantment heavy teams. NR/Tranq was the natural counter to those teams, because they were relied heavily on Hexes and/or Enchantments.

Nothing, we run NR too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zui

3) What's wrong with Degen/Heavy-Pressure? It's a build, it's effective, and it's certainly beatable.

Nothing, besides the fact that it's significantly easier to run than balanced.

Divineshadows · Aug 21, 2006, 05:56 PM // 17:56

Congrats Unko on the level 6 gladiator. The scaling on these gladiator levels are insane and there is nothing to really help out like the exponential fame gain in HA for consecutive wins. In theory, a player could go from HA rank 0 to rank 3 in X weeks and then go from rank 3 to rank 6 in the same amount of X weeks simply because they tend to get longer consecutive wins from having a better understanding of HA and having built up more friends list. I do not think the same can be said for the way the TA titles operate as going from rank 3 to rank 6 should take 3 times as long as going from rank 0 to rank 3.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOneMephisto

Unko plays with us a lot,

He's played with us once as well on the warrior position I believe. I was monking and was happy that he pressured their "monk-hate" characters to keep the pressure off me and build adrenaline and then spiked out a different target.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOneMephisto

Lol, yep [TA] is probably TA exclusive. I mean, we won like 3 lost 4 or something like that. The problem is that my guildies a) have no GvG experience and b) get extremely discouraged extremely fast if we lose. So I've basically given up trying to get them to Gvg.

Morale is very important when it comes to getting organized for GvG. Win and people will want to show up. Lose and you get stuck with the 6 or 7 player curse. The important part is to learn from the losses so that you can avoid repeating the same mistakes. Team play and strong communication are even more important in GvG than in TA.

If you need help trying to get your players motivated, then let me know if you want me to guest for you during the ladder lock. Even just getting me on vent and discussing how to gain initiative and common situations in a GvG match that occur and how to respond to them I think would help your guild if they want to do GvG in the future.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wasteland Squidget

Played with some of their players (mostly DivineShadows)

I always do enjoy guesting with [NUKE]. Just seems like every time you have asked lately I am already in a GvG match or mid TA run.

D E L E T E D · Aug 21, 2006, 06:11 PM // 18:11

We([TA]) seem to run very well with each other using very little or no vent communication to play. We do this by playing ta with each other every day and no exactly how each other moves, spikes, etc. etc.

When we GvGed we were like chickens with our heads cut off. Our communication broke through, and shit hit the fan. I started screaming on vent, I think I made zui piss his pants, Memphisto started crying, Qweer and Josh drank 40's the next day until they couldnt function properly, Unko sat quietly(with no mic its hard to make noises), Mudz told his girlfriend to go start on a puzzle(which is never good i might add),Remmeh went to go solo the FoW (if you didn't know already he is a PvE superstar!), and then I said "GvG is teh shit" in those exact words.

I think that [TA]'s problem with GvG is paralleled to lots of different parts of life.

It's like the first time, you know, its dark, you don't know what does what, what goes where?,whats that smell? Who's hand is that? whoa,

sno · Aug 21, 2006, 06:30 PM // 18:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by D E L E T E D

We([TA]) seem to run very well with each other using very little or no vent communication to play. We do this by playing ta with each other every day and no exactly how each other moves, spikes, etc. etc.

This works for most TA groups because each roll is designed to work on its own to complete its singular goal (ie. flashbot deals with wars, dom gets monk, etc.) but to be truly successful against good teams, there must be a lot of communication. If you spread out each role to each player you stand a much better chance of winning. A good example of this is in damage mitigation. Many people think that keeping the party alive is the monks job, but in reality the monk should be the last resort. In a successful TA group, there will be several forms of damage mitigation (such as conditions or hexes,) and if each member is vocal about what is giving them the most trouble, other members can adjust to mitigate it.

Consider a blinding flash-bot casting blinding flash every 4 seconds on your only warrior. Sure, you can have the monk remove the blind over and over, but each time he has to do that he uses energy, and once the energy on the monk is gone, people start dying. If this is communicated, blinding flash can be easily distracted or diverted, and our warrior is free to do what he wants. There are also tactical decisions that have to be communicated if you're going to win a stacked fight. If you're playing the counter to your build (ie playing against NR while running hexes) you should by all means lose, but if you out-tactic the opposition using good communication, you win (and they'll likely call you noobs.)

People hate to be beaten with tactics. Snare a group of 4 touchers and kite away watching them degen out, completely unable to self-heal, and you can bet you're going to get at least 2 or 3 taunts of varying abrasiveness. It's exactly things like this that make communication very necessary. We're always talking in vent, because the more we can communicate, the better we play, and the higher we'll climb on the GvG ladder

remmeh · Aug 21, 2006, 06:45 PM // 18:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by D E L E T E D

Remmeh went to go solo the FoW (if you didn't know already he is a PvE superstar!)

for the record i never gvged with you

Van Goghs Ear · Aug 21, 2006, 07:19 PM // 19:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by remmeh

for the record i never gvged with you

for the record me neither...in fact I think Pok banned him from our vent

sno · Aug 21, 2006, 07:23 PM // 19:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Van Goghs Ear

for the record me neither...in fact I think Pok banned him from our vent

Actually Sno banned him from our vent...

TheOneMephisto · Aug 21, 2006, 09:42 PM // 21:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by sno

This works for most TA groups because each roll is designed to work on its own to complete its singular goal (ie. flashbot deals with wars, dom gets monk, etc.) but to be truly successful against good teams, there must be a lot of communication. If you spread out each role to each player you stand a much better chance of winning. A good example of this is in damage mitigation. Many people think that keeping the party alive is the monks job, but in reality the monk should be the last resort. In a successful TA group, there will be several forms of damage mitigation (such as conditions or hexes,) and if each member is vocal about what is giving them the most trouble, other members can adjust to mitigate it.

Consider a blinding flash-bot casting blinding flash every 4 seconds on your only warrior. Sure, you can have the monk remove the blind over and over, but each time he has to do that he uses energy, and once the energy on the monk is gone, people start dying. If this is communicated, blinding flash can be easily distracted or diverted, and our warrior is free to do what he wants. There are also tactical decisions that have to be communicated if you're going to win a stacked fight. If you're playing the counter to your build (ie playing against NR while running hexes) you should by all means lose, but if you out-tactic the opposition using good communication, you win (and they'll likely call you noobs.)

People hate to be beaten with tactics. Snare a group of 4 touchers and kite away watching them degen out, completely unable to self-heal, and you can bet you're going to get at least 2 or 3 taunts of varying abrasiveness. It's exactly things like this that make communication very necessary. We're always talking in vent, because the more we can communicate, the better we play, and the higher we'll climb on the GvG ladder

Well the thing is that we acn do all the damage mitigation and stuff alone without really communicating much. For instance, if I'm on warrior and I see the monk calling diversion quite a bit and/or swearing (either with or without vent), I can easily just go pressure the dom mesmer. Also, often times I'll see the dom mesmer casting diversion a lot, and I'll just go pressure him to prevent a lot of those diversions.

Same thing when on cripshot or melandru's, if I see the warrior calling blind a lot, even without vent, I'm just gonna camp their blindbot with a dshot and get his attunements or blinding flash. There's also stuff like I can basically predict when my warrior is going to spike the monk, and I just throw off a random interrupt his way, and more often than not I'll get a RoF or Guardian even if he didn't call his spike. Sometimes we can even get fast kills with thumper "spikes" just because random interrupts when he's "spiking" get their monks healing spells.

D E L E T E D · Aug 21, 2006, 10:06 PM // 22:06

you banned me because you said that frenzy did 50% more dmg.

Van Goghs Ear · Aug 21, 2006, 10:19 PM // 22:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by D E L E T E D

you banned me because you said that frenzy did 50% more dmg.

lol

sno · Aug 22, 2006, 01:15 AM // 01:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by D E L E T E D

you banned me because you said that frenzy did 50% more dmg.

It does, but that's not why I banned you. I banned you because you came into our vent uninvited. You came in and started babbling on about mindless topics that really started giving me a headache. If you go into someone elses vent uninvited and won't leave, expect to be banned.

Now, since you brought it up, I'll explain via algebra (which you say you're so good at) why frenzy does 50% more damage.

If you're attacking 33% faster, it stands to reason that it takes 33% less time to do the same amount of damage, right?

33% less time = 2/3t (with t being time)
damage = d
damage multiplier = x
(2/3)t*x = d
x=(3/2)d/t <-- proof.

Perhaps that was too complex, so let's add some hypothetical numbers. Say the damage is 10. The time is 1. These are arbitrary numbers, and don't mean actual damage or seconds, they just help make the math easy to see.

(2/3)1*x = 10
(2/3)*x = 10
x = 10 / (2/3)
x = (3/2)*10
x = 15

15 is clearly 50% more than 10. Now please don't bring it up again, or derail the thread even more than it needs to be (not that this thread really had a point to begin with.)

TheOneMephisto · Aug 22, 2006, 01:44 AM // 01:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by sno

It does, but that's not why I banned you. I banned you because you came into our vent uninvited. You came in and started babbling on about mindless topics that really started giving me a headache. If you go into someone elses vent uninvited and won't leave, expect to be banned.

Now, since you brought it up, I'll explain via algebra (which you say you're so good at) why frenzy does 50% more damage.

If you're attacking 33% faster, it stands to reason that it takes 33% less time to do the same amount of damage, right?

33% less time = 2/3t (with t being time)
damage = d
damage multiplier = x
(2/3)t*x = d
x=(3/2)d/t <-- proof.

Perhaps that was too complex, so let's add some hypothetical numbers. Say the damage is 10. The time is 1. These are arbitrary numbers, and don't mean actual damage or seconds, they just help make the math easy to see.

(2/3)1*x = 10
(2/3)*x = 10
x = 10 / (2/3)
x = (3/2)*10
x = 15

15 is clearly 50% more than 10. Now please don't bring it up again, or derail the thread even more than it needs to be (not that this thread really had a point to begin with.)

Not to be off-subject (again).

He's right deleted, there's an article somewhere on guildwiki about it, I think it might be on the flurry page.

D E L E T E D · Aug 22, 2006, 02:22 AM // 02:22

i understand your math, but I don't understand how a normal attack speed could be considered 2/3t, wouldn't normal attack speed be considered 3/3t. I really don't care that much, but I thought it was pretty childish of kicking and banning me, since i wasn't talking to you, me and divine were just trying to figure it out.

i would like to read the thread..post link plz.

Nero · Aug 22, 2006, 02:32 AM // 02:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by sno

People saying that titles don't mean anything because you can ______ them need to take a look at the bigger picture. All pvp titles can be earned in a cheap way, and high rank in no way means high skill. High rank can be "faked" in all respect, I'd have much more faith in a rank 3 that got his fame with balanced than with a rank 9 that ran spike or iway. Rank shows only one thing: time spent. I respect that Unko didn't earn his points in RA, as I've seen him in TA battles many times in the past.

I won't comment on his skill, as that's not the point of this thread. As I said, rank = time spent, not skill. It's equivilent to farming, a rich farmer doesn't mean anything in terms of skill.

Congrats.

Quoted for Truth.

Congrats Unko

sno · Aug 22, 2006, 04:15 AM // 04:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by D E L E T E D

i understand your math, but I don't understand how a normal attack speed could be considered 2/3t, wouldn't normal attack speed be considered 3/3t. I really don't care that much, but I thought it was pretty childish of kicking and banning me, since i wasn't talking to you, me and divine were just trying to figure it out.

i would like to read the thread..post link plz.

T is time under normal attack speed... 2/3t is time under frenzy since frenzy allows you to do the same amount of damage 33% quicker (ie. in 2/3 the time)... now drop it. search if you want to know more, but no more talk of it in this thread. Divine didn't invite you nor did he want you in our vent either.

Wasteland Squidget · Aug 22, 2006, 06:06 AM // 06:06

This has gone pretty much completely off-topic, so I'm gonna close it. Folks are welcome to discuss frenzy damage increase in its own thread, or vent bannages in guild chat.